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As Spain falls apart, Europe is tongue-tied
随着西班牙分崩离析科特迪瓦Vs荷兰比分，欧洲张口结舌
Almost all EU leaders keep mum, while Commission stands by Madrid and MEPs can't even decide whether to debate Sunday's chaos.
当欧洲委员会支持马德里科特迪瓦Vs荷兰比分，而欧洲议会的议员们甚至无法决定是否要讨论发生在周日的混乱时，欧盟领导人几乎集体沉默科特迪瓦Vs荷兰比分了。
By DAVID M. HERSZENHORN, MAÏA DE LA BAUME AND QUENTIN ARIèS
作者：戴维·M·赫森霍恩，玛依阿·德·拉·毛姆，以及昆汀·阿李耶斯
10/2/17, 3:20 PM CET
2017年10月2日欧洲中部时间下午3点20分
Updated 10/3/17, 6:23 PM CET
更新于2017年10月3日欧洲中部时间下午6点23分
Spanish National riot policemen evict a young woman as they try to stop voting at the Ramon Llull school in Barcelona | Alberto Estévez/EFE via EPA
这是西班牙国家防爆警察在试图阻止一场发生在巴塞罗那拉蒙·鲁尔学校举行的选举时驱逐一名女孩的照片。（阿尔伯托·艾斯德维）
The EU thought calling the Brexit referendum was a mistake. Now, Catalonia has shown that squashing a referendum could be even worse.
过去欧盟称“英国退欧”公投是一个错误。不过现在加泰罗尼亚的（局势）却表明打压一场公投可能错得更远。
The Spanish government’s violent, and largely failed, effort to suppress the illegal independence vote on Sunday left officials in Brussels flummoxed, caught between their obligation to support Madrid and the rule of law, and an inescapable imperative to condemn the violence against unarmed citizens seeking to exercise their democratic right to freedom of expression.
西班牙 *** 试图通过暴力手段镇压周日的非法独立公投差不多算是失败了，但是（这一行动）却让身处布鲁塞尔的官员们大为尴尬，因为他们被钳制在一种两难境地里：虽然支持马德里以及依法治国原则是他们的义务，但是谴责暴力对付试图运用表达自由这项民 *** 利的手无寸铁的平民也是一件逃避不了的道义责任。
After more than 24 hours of silence from senior EU leaders — a striking delay in the era of live-tweeting and nonstop news cycles — Brussels came out solidly on the side of the Spanish government and Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy. They called the vote “not legal” and branded the dispute “an internal matter,” while at the same time calling for dialogue and an end to confrontation.
在欧盟高级领导人的沉默超过24个小时之后（生活在一个以“推特”为精神食粮且新闻从不停歇的时代，这是让人无法忽视的拖延），布鲁塞尔终于集体站在了西班牙 *** 和首相马里亚诺·拉霍伊这一边。他们在号召结束对抗开启对话的同时，也称这次投票“非法”，并给这场纠纷贴上“国内事务”的标签。
EU officials, however, did not suggest any ideas for how to defuse the tensions and pointedly warned officials in Catalonia they would find themselves expelled from the EU if they seceded from Spain.
不过欧盟官员们在如何缓和（双方）矛盾方面却没有提供任何指导性意见，他们只是毫不留情地警告加泰罗尼亚的官员们：如果他们脱离西班牙，那么欧盟就驱逐他们。
“Just spoke to @MarianoRajoy,” European Council President Donald Tusk tweeted at 5:21 p.m. on Monday, more than a day after photos and videos of Spanish police trying to suppress the vote in Catalonia by force flashed around the globe. “Sharing his constitutional arguments, I appealed for finding ways to avoid further escalation and use of force.”
在西班牙警察试图运用暴力镇压加泰罗尼亚公投的图片与视频在全球闪亮登场超过一天之后，欧洲理事会主席唐纳德·塔斯科才于周一下午5点21分在“推特”上发文：“刚刚与马里亚诺·拉霍伊的‘推号’联系过了。科特迪瓦Vs荷兰比分我与他一样坚持以宪法为依据。（在此前提下，）我呼吁寻找解决 *** 以避免使用暴力以及暴力进一步升级。”
By that point, Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker had not issued a personal statement. But at a regularly scheduled midday news conference, the Commission’s chief spoke *** an, Margaritis Schinas, said: “Under the Spanish Constitution, yesterday’s vote in Catalonia was not legal.”
截止那一刻，欧洲委员会主席让·克劳德·容克都没有发表个人声明。不过在中午举行的新闻例会上，该委员会的首席发言人玛格丽思·辛纳斯说：“依据西班牙宪法，昨天加泰罗尼亚的公投是非法的。”
Spanish national riot policemen form a security cordon around the Ramon Llull school in Barcelona | Alberto Estévez/EFE via EPA
西班牙国家防爆警察用黄色警戒线封锁了巴塞罗那的拉蒙·罗尔学校。（阿尔伯托·艾斯德维）
“For the European Commission, as President Juncker has reiterated repeatedly, this is an internal matter for Spain that has to be dealt with in line with the constitutional order of Spain,” Schinas continued.
辛纳斯还说：“就像容克主席反复重申的那样，欧洲委员会认为这是西班牙的内部事务，应该依据西班牙的宪法秩序予以处理。”
He also added a sharp warning should Catalonia secede via a legal referendum in line with the Spanish constitution: “It would find itself outside of the European Union” — despite the repeated declarations of loyalty to the EU from the pro-independence Catalan government.
尽管准备独立的加泰罗尼亚 *** 反复向欧盟表示忠诚，但是他还是严厉警告（该 *** ）说：如果加泰罗尼亚依据西班牙宪法举行合法的公投从而脱离了西班牙，“那么它将不会在欧盟找到一席之地。”
In Barcelona and beyond, there was sharp critici *** by the independentistes of the roughly 24-hour silence in Brussels that elapsed before Schinas’ comments.
在巴塞罗那及其周边地区，独立支持者严厉批评了在辛纳斯发表评论之前布鲁塞尔竟然让24个小时在沉默中渡过。
“The @EU_Commission unable to condemn Spain’s violence,” Aleix Sarri Camargo, a Catalonian aide in the European Parliament, tweeted. “All those big words, all that grandstanding for nothing. This is how the EU dies.”
阿列克斯·萨利·卡马哥是一名来自加泰罗尼亚的欧洲议会助手，他发推文说：“欧洲委员会不能谴责西班牙的暴力。（因为他们说的）那些大话，那些作秀，都是不用付出代价的。欧盟就是这么死的。”
Amadeu Altafaj, the Catalan government’s representative to the EU, told reporters in Brussels that: “We are disappointed as a government.”
阿马德乌·奥尔塔法是加泰罗尼亚 *** 驻欧盟的代表。在布鲁塞尔他对记者讲：“作为 *** ，我们感到很失望。”
Altafaj added: “It is also disappointing that during the midday briefing there was not a single word on the 893 people who were injured. These are EU citizens. We are not talking about any country at the end of the world. These are 893 Catalan and EU citizens that were injured.
奥尔塔法还说：“还有让人失望的事，那就是在中午的情况介绍中没有一个词提到那893个受伤的人。他们都是欧盟的公民。我们不是在说处于世界尽头的某一个国家。这儿受到伤害的893人既是加泰罗尼亚人，也是欧盟公民。”
“The feedback that we are receiving from Catalonia today is that people are between saddened by this statement and upset. We are talking about a very pro-European region. The credibility and reputation of the EU is being eroded by these kind of statements,” Altafaj continued. “Neutrality is not neutral anymore.”
“这份声明让人们既悲哀又沮丧，这就是我们今天从加泰罗尼亚得到的反馈。我们现在讨论的是一个非常支持欧盟的地区。欧盟的信誉和荣誉正是被这类声明毁掉的，”奥尔塔法接着说。“而欧盟的中立性不复存在。”
The EU, however, has played a role in brokering other regional disputes. And some experts said there was an opportunity to do so in Catalonia provided that Brussels and Madrid recognized it would not work to simply di *** iss as illegal the desire for a referendum and independence.
但是欧盟却在其它的地区争端中扮演中间调解人。一些专家说如果巴塞罗那和马德里能够意识到，并且不把公投和独立的愿望当作违法并予以驳回的话，其实是存在一个机会让欧盟也在加泰罗尼亚做中间人的。
“The EU leadership should talk with the Spanish government, and say ‘it’s not only a Spanish affair, it’s a European one as well,’” said Stephan Stetter, a professor of international politics and conflict studies at the Universität der Bundeswehr in Munich. “The EU could have a positive mediation role in all of this.”
斯蒂夫·斯泰德是位于慕尼黑的德国国防大学研究国际政治和冲突的教授，他说：“欧盟领导人应该与西班牙 *** 谈一谈，说‘这不仅仅是西班牙的事，这也是欧洲的事，’欧盟本该担当起一个积极调停的角色的。”
Stetter said it would be a mistake to think that negotiating would somehow legitimize the independence movement.
斯泰德说：认为谈判会在某种程度上让这次独立运动合法化是错误的。
“It has to be legitimized, because obviously, this movement exists,” he said, adding that simply calling it illegal was counter-productive. “It is very legalistic, and that’s not the way you deal with these kinds of issues because it’s very emotional. It’s identity politics, which is not positive, but it matters a lot.”
他说：“它必须被合法化，因为很明显，这场运动是存在的。如果简单地称它不合法，只会适得其反。而且处理这类问题不能用这种 *** ，因为（简单地称它不合法）很情绪化。这是一个政治认同问题。虽然它肯定不够积极正面，但是它关系重大。”
The EU, by threatening not to recognize an independent Catalonia, also creates a risk of Brussels being seen as denying the rights of Catalonians as European citizens. Instead, Stetter said officials should focus on negotiations how to expand Catalonia’s autonomy within Spain, and on the fact that more than half of Catalonian citizens did not vote.
欧盟以不承认一个独立的加泰罗尼亚为威胁的同时，也冒着让布鲁塞尔被视为否认加泰罗尼亚人作为欧洲公民所享有的权利的风险。斯泰德认为，与此相反地，各位官员应该集中讨论如何扩大加泰罗尼亚在西班牙内部的自治权，以及超过一半的加泰罗尼亚人并没有去投票这一事实。
“We are so used to seeing the United Kingdom or Spain as a nation-state but these are not nation-states,” Stetter said. “They are supra-national institutions themselves.”
“我们是如此习惯地视大不列颠联合王国或者西班牙为一个单一民族国家，但其实它们都不是单一民族国家，”斯泰德说。“它们本身就是一些超越民族的机构。”
European Parliament President Antonio Tajani was the last of the three top EU leaders to issue a statement, saying he had spoken to Rajoy and that the Parliament would hold a “debate on Constitution, rule of law and fundamental rights in Spain in light of the events in Catalonia.”
欧洲议会主席安东尼奥·塔加尼是欧盟三大主要领导人中最后一个发表声明的。他说他已经与西班牙首相拉霍伊谈过了，而且欧洲议会“将根据发生在加泰罗尼亚的各种事件，就宪法、法治以及基本人权展开辩论。”
Tajani’s announcement followed demands earlier in the day by several political groups for a formal debate at the Parliament later this week during its plenary in Stra *** ourg.
有几个政治组织曾在当天早些时候要求本周晚些时候当欧洲议会在斯特拉斯堡举行全体会议期间举进一场正式辩论，而塔加尼正是在该要求提出之后发布声明的。
EU Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker, right, next to spokesperson Margaritis Schinas in May 2017 | Olivier Hoslet/EPA
欧盟委员会主席容克（右），紧挨着的是发言人玛格丽思·辛纳斯。（照片摄于2017年五月）
Several supporters of Brexit highlighted the EU’s backing of Madrid and lack of critici *** of the violence by the Spanish government. “EU supporters wilfully ignore violence in Spain against Catalans,” Nigel Farage tweeted. “This will be the EU way of dealing with dissent in the future.”
几名“英国退欧”的支持者强调了欧盟对马德里的支持，以及对西班牙 *** 使用暴力的批评不到位。奈杰尔·法拉格写“推文”说：“欧盟支持者们故意忽视西班牙针对加泰罗尼亚人的暴力。这会成为未来欧盟处理持异议者的方式。”
For Brussels, which has come through a maze of recent political crises, Catalonia looks like a no-win situation.
对于已经安然渡过近期一系列错综复杂的政治危机的布鲁塞尔而言，加泰罗尼亚似乎毫无胜算。
While the EU has had roles in helping resolve the dispute between Ireland and Northern Ireland and in trying to mediate the conflict between Greece and Turkey over Cyprus, it has generally stayed out of political fights within member countries — especially the large Western European states.
协助解决爱尔兰与北爱之间的争端，试图调解希腊与土耳其就塞浦路斯发生的冲突，这些欧盟都在其中起过作用，但是欧盟通常不插手成员国内部的政治斗争，尤其是那些西欧大国内部的。
But while it is far from clear what good could come of Europe inserting itself in a national dispute, or how the EU might do so, inevitably not getting involved would also carry a political cost. There is also the risk of being accused of hypocrisy given the willingness of Brussels in recent months to chastize eastern European countries over their internal political disputes.
虽然不介入也是要付出政治代价的——如果在最近数月里，布鲁塞尔想要以国内政治冲突为由严惩东欧各国，那么欧盟也要冒着被指责为虚伪的风险——但是还不清楚欧盟插手一个国家内部的纷争会得到什么好处，或者说，欧盟怎么可能去干这种事呢？
No wonder then, that the Commission pleaded for calm in Spain even as it offered no solutions.
那么我们就毫不奇怪欧洲委员会即使什么解决 *** 也提供不了却还是要西班牙内部保持平静。
“Beyond the purely legal aspects of this matter, the Commission believes that these are times for unity and stability, not divisiveness and fragmentation,” Schinas said. “We call on all relevant players to now move very swiftly from confrontation to dialogue. Violence can never be an instrument in politics. We trust the leadership of Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy to manage this difficult process in full respect of the Spanish constitution.”
辛那斯说：“且不谈这次事件中完全合法的方面，欧洲委员会还是相信这是一个团结与稳定，而非分歧与分裂的时期。我们号召所有相关的人员快速从对抗进入对话。暴力从来不能成为一种政治工具。我们信任马里亚诺·拉霍伊首相的领导能力，他会充分尊重西班牙宪法，并应付这个困难局面。”
National leaders in Europe were also caught in a bind, and several had to calibrate their responses based on regional separatist sentiment in their own countries.
欧洲的各国领导人同样也是陷入困境，其中几个不得不以他们自己国家里的区域分离主义者的观点为依据，重新改写了他们的回答。
Among the first to speak out against Spain’s crackdown was Prime Minister Charles Michel of Belgium, which faces constant pressure from nationalists in its Flanders region. “Violence can never be the answer!” he tweeted.
比利时首相查尔斯·米歇尔是首批公开反对西班牙镇压的人中的一个。他要面对的是比利时弗兰德斯地区民族独立主义者持续不断的压力。他发推文说：“暴力绝不是答案！”
Many leaders expressed deference to Rajoy, realizing that they could potentially end up in his shoes for one reason or another.
许多领导人在意识到他们很可能会因为这个或者那个原因而处在拉霍伊的位置上时，都向他表达了顺从。
French President Emmanuel Macron said on Monday afternoon that he had spoken to Rajoy. Macron expressed his support for the Spanish constitution, saying he would only deal with his counterpart in Madrid.
周一下午法国总统埃马纽埃尔·马克龙说他已经与拉霍伊通过话了。马克龙表示他支持西班牙宪法，并说他只与马德里的首相做交易，因为首相与他地位相当。
Spanish Guardia Civil guards break the door of a polling station in Sant Julià de Ramis, where Catalan President Carles Puigdemont was supposed to vote | Lluís Gené/AFP via Getty Images
西班牙民防卫队打破了位于Sant Julià de Ramis的投票站的门。据说加泰罗尼亚总统卡勒斯·普吉德蒙特会去那里投票。
The largest bloc in the Parliament, the European People’s Party which includes Rajoy’s Popular Party, sat on the fence, saying it would not oppose a debate in Parliament, but also not endorsing one.
欧洲人民党是议会里的更大联盟党派，甚至包括了拉霍伊的人民党，现在它持观望态度。它说虽然它不会反对在议会里来一次辩论，但是也不会支持。
Those in favor of the debate included Gianni Pittella, head of the Progressive Alliance of Socialists and Democrats, the second biggest group, who told POLITICO that the Parliament urged all parties “to sit down and work together for a peaceful and responsible solution in the framework of the Spanish constitution.”
支持辩论的包括“社会党与民主党进步联盟” 的头Gianni Pittella。作为议会第二大组织的头，他对《政客》讲议会渴望所有党派“坐下来，同心协力，在西班牙宪法框架内拿出一个和平尽责的解决方案。”
Kati Piri, a Dutch Socialist MEP, called on Brussels to take a strong stand. “EU must condemn disproportionate violence used by Spanish police & offer mediation in serious political conflict,” she tweeted.
来自荷兰的社会主义者Kati Piri作为欧洲议会的一名议员，也号召布鲁塞尔采取更强硬的立场。她发推写道：“欧盟必须谴责西班牙警察不合比例地使用暴力，还要在严重的政治冲突中提供斡旋。”
The Greens, issuing the call for a formal debate by MEPs, called on the Parliament to “express a clear rejection of violence” and “clear support for a negotiated solution to the conflict.” For the Alliance of Liberals and Democrats for Europe group, Guy Verhofstadt was quick to tweet that “only a negotiated solution is the way forward.”
“绿党”要求欧洲议员进行一次正式的辩论，号召议会“清楚地对暴力说不”并且“明确支持通过谈判解决冲突”。Guy Verhofstadt是“自由主义者与民主主义者联盟欧洲分部”的头，他快速发推道：“只有协商解决才是通往未来的路。”
At the news conference, Schinas disputed a reporter’s assertion that the Commission was late to react.
在新闻发布会现场，一位记者认为委员会反应迟钝，为此辛那斯与之发生了争吵。
“I dispute your statement that it took us long for that statement, because it is us who determine the timing and agenda of our statements, nobody else,” he said. “So I don’t know what is late [or] is early to you.”
他说：“科特迪瓦Vs荷兰比分你说这次声明花了我们太长时间，这个我必须说两句，因为是我们来决定发表声明的时间与日程安排，不是别的什么人。所以我不清楚你所谓的迟或早是个什么意思。”
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaa *** 翻译：seeE *** ee 转载请注明出处
论坛地址：https://www.ltaa *** /bbs/thread-459267-1-1.html
Anthony Chambers
The European Parliament is was supposed to be the direct representatives of the people to the EU. When Brexit happened, they decided that 60 million people would simply just not be EU citizens without an MEP, even though article 50 says nothing about removing anyone’s citizenship. When the Catalan independence happened, they say it’s an internal Spanish issue. What is the point of having an MEP, if they don’t actually represent their citizens. Shame on the EU.
Posted on 10/2/17 | 3:39 PM CEST
欧洲议会过去现在都被认为是欧盟人民的直接代表。当英国脱欧时，他们决定这6000万人没有一个欧洲议员，所以无一人是欧盟公民，即使50号法案对剥夺任何人的公民权都没说啥。当加泰罗尼亚独立时，他们说这是西班牙内部事务。如果欧洲议员们实际上没有代表他们的人民时，那么要一个欧洲议员干嘛？真为欧盟感到丢人。
sgu66
“I dispute your statement that it took us long for that statement, because it is us who determine the timing and agenda of our statements, nobody else,”
Yet again we see the EU thinking it is the centre of the Universe; everything is ok when the argument gets changed to timing rather than content.
Posted on 10/2/17 | 3:43 PM CEST
“你说这次声明花了我们太长时间，这个我必须说两句，因为是我们来决定发表声明的时间与日程安排，不是别的什么人。”
再说一次，欧盟认为它是宇宙的中心；当理由变为时间安排而非内容时，一切OK。
Sagesse
“I dispute your statement that it took us long for that statement, because it is us who determine the timing and agenda of our statements, nobody else,” he said. “So I don’t know what is late [or] is early to you.” Is that a bad translation or is that a statement that the Commission sees itself as beyond critici *** for tardiness?
他说：“你说这次声明花了我们太长时间，这个我必须说两句，因为是我们来决定发表声明的时间与日程安排，不是别的什么人。所以我不清楚你所谓的迟或早是个什么意思。”
这是翻坏了还是说欧洲委员会认为它不能因为拖拉被批评？
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